What Once Was Austin
The Legacy of One of Austin’s First Black Firefighters
Marvin Douglas, a distinguished community figure, reflects on his life’s journey, tracing his roots, challenges, and triumphs. Marvin’s story is a testament to resilience, dedication, and the power of community.
Becoming a Firefighter
Marvin became one of the first black firefighters in his area, serving alongside pioneers like Ray Davis, Nathaniel Cambridge, and Rodney Green.This decision changed his life, leading him to be stationed on Lydia Street, marking the beginning of a significant chapter in his life. He recalls the rigorous training and the challenges of being one of the first Black firefighters, a role that required not just physical but also mental fortitude.
Community Ties and Changes
Marvin’s deep connection to his community, particularly the Holy Cross neighborhood, is evident. Moving multiple times, he finally settled in Holy Cross, a place known for its tight-knit community and professional residents. He reminisces about the sense of camaraderie, the shared struggles, and the collective growth of the neighborhood. Marvin notes the significant demographic shifts over the years, with younger, predominantly white families moving in, changing the neighborhood’s dynamics.
Memorable Moments and Traditions
Reflecting on his personal life, Marvin speaks fondly of his two daughters, their education, and their involvement in school activities. His home was a hub of traditions, many of which he has passed down to his daughters and the next generation. Marvin’s stories paint a vivid picture of a community rich in culture and support, where neighbors knew each other well and shared a strong bond.
Challenges and Progress
Marvin’s career as a firefighter was not without challenges. He faced racial discrimination and had to navigate a landscape where opportunities for black firefighters were limited. Despite these hurdles, he witnessed and contributed to significant progress in the workforce. He highlights the importance of education and training, noting the evolving requirements for firefighters and the increasing opportunities for minority groups.
Legacy and Lessons
Marvin’s contributions to his community were recognized when he was recognized as an honorary fire chief, a testament to his dedication and impact. His advice to younger generations is rooted in preparation, education, and work ethic. Marvin believes these values are crucial for overcoming challenges and achieving success.
Conclusion
Marvin Douglas’s story is a powerful narrative of perseverance, community, and progress. His reflections offer valuable insights into the past and present, highlighting the enduring spirit of a man who has significantly impacted his community. Marvin’s journey inspires and reminds us of the importance of resilience, community bonds, and the continuous pursuit of progress.
Karen Terry on gentrification and historic black Austinites
Karen Mays-Terry, an educator born and raised in Austin, remembers Rogers Washington Holy Cross, a historic East Austin neighborhood built by and for black professionals after World War Two. In this interview, Mays-Terry discusses community ties in the past, the historic figures that emerged from Rogers Washington, and present day neighborhood connections.
Interview Highlights
On defining neighborhood
“I see a neighborhood being defined as people that work together, people that actually care about each other. You get to know each other’s families. You grow up together. You know each other on a first name basis. You can knock on the door you visit. You can ask for favors. You babysit. I mean, it’s just a continuation of family. Professionally and as a family.”The neighborhood of Rogers Washington
“This is such a special neighborhood of people that have a lot of wisdom, a lot of care, a lot of love. It was just a double dose of everything. It was either a double dose of correction, it was a double dose of love, care and concern. When my daughter was catching the bus, going to school, I never worried about anything because there was always somebody on the porch that was able to say, ‘hey, you’re on your way home, or at least call me.’”Gentrification and remembrance
“One of the things that I have been a part of is the historic designation of this neighborhood. A lot of influential people, community servants have come out of this neighborhood. And gentrification is driving us out at a rapid rate. And the history of African-Americans in Austin is rapidly disappearing. And it’s very important to remember and be remembered for different contributions that have been made to the city by people of color. Neighborhoods change. I am glad for and accept the diversity that’s coming to the neighborhood, it’s important the starting of a new history. But it’s also important that the history that was already established not be forgotten.”New neighborhood connections
“Our neighbors now that we’ve gotten to know are wonderful because a lot of the same traditions have continued. We still have the neighborhood round up and everything. People have joined the Rogers Washington Neighborhood Association, so we still have that connection. And again, we met new wonderful people that are not only making new neighborhood memories, but also it’s important to them to maintain and let everyone know about the history that was already established. And that’s a good feeling because times change, situations change. But the history is still there.”Full Transcript
Cynthia Mays on civil rights, education, and Austin’s black history
Cynthia Hurst Mays was born and raised in Rogers Washington Holy Cross, a historic East Austin neighborhood built by and for black professionals after World War Two. In this interview, she describes her childhood, her education, civil rights, and the continued sense of family in Rogers Washington.
Interview Highlights
Childhood and community ties
“And it was where different age groups had different siblings there, but everybody had a family member that had a friend that was in the same age. So it was like there was no fear in the neighborhood. We go outside, we ride bicycles. It was more or less going outside and we didn’t stay in the house a lot – I did because I was a reader. So I just wanted to stay in the house and do those kind of things. But for the most part, my siblings loved being outside riding bicycles and it was just community, families that were like relatives. “Juneteenth celebrations
“On Sundays after church, we gather for holidays, Christmas and New Year’s and Easter and Juneteenth, especially Juneteenth. Oh, this was a big deal. My mother was part of the revitalization of Juneteenth. At one time, they did not celebrate it. There was a period in which it wasn’t celebrated. And then my mother and several of us decided it needed to be celebrated. So they actually started it again. We stayed up putting flowers and banners on trucks and cars. It was in the early ‘70s that this was a big deal.”Educational rigor at LC Anderson
“We had teachers of our own race that taught us. But then the teachers, I felt that the teachers were teachers where it wasn’t a failure. It was where you were going to work hard to get what you needed to get, to learn what you needed to learn. It wasn’t where we were allowed to say, well, ‘he’s not teachable.’ That didn’t happen. You know, everybody was going to be taught. So then I think that doing that, that era, we miss out on it now because of the fact that that determination to make sure that we made the grade, made a difference.”Civil Rights during desegregation
“But my mother was that kind of person, one that was called upon when desegregation and they had to go to McCallum. And there was actually guys waiting for them, my siblings, when they got off the bus for it to be a violent occurrence. And so the superintendent of schools then called upon my mother to come in and try to to help with controlling where there wouldn’t be a riot.”The Rogers Washington community today
“Being a part of a community that we hope stays a community, because we still have those ties with everybody in the community. We go to church together, although it might be different churches within the city. But if there’s something going on that they’re involved in, we’re there to support them any way. So we’re still getting together and we’re still a family. We’re still a community. Our children – it’s now going down to the next generations. My children, Brenda’s children, and grandchildren, they all know each other because that family dynamic is still there within that community.”Full Transcript
Marilynn Poole on family, gentrification, and Austin’s black history
Marilynn Poole-Webb, an accomplished lawyer born and raised in Austin, discusses Rogers Washington Holy Cross, an East Austin neighborhood built by and for black professionals after World War Two. She talks about memories of her family and friends, gentrification, the neighborhood today, remembrance, and more.
Interview Highlights
Remembering her Aunt Irene
“My mother was a young mother, and we were raised beautifully as a young mother would. But my aunt for all of us, she’s the one who introduced us to at least some social graces. She always said, ‘it was better to know how things are to be done and then when you’re doing it wrong, you know you’re choosing that.’”On Gentrification in East Austin
“When I first came back to Austin in about 2014, I was living with my father on the corner, and I became active in the neighborhood association. East Austin – it was changing. The demographics were changing rapidly and the news was full of protests and cries of gentrification and all of that. And as a neighborhood, we decided that a lot of the change was inevitable, and we embraced it by sharing with our new neighbors our memories of this neighborhood. A lot of what we considered landmarks of East Austin were being taken away. Definitely the schools and the names of the schools. I know my thinking was it’s hard, though, to honor and respect something if you don’t know that history.”Community building today
“And so rather than getting angry at someone throwing away something they just didn’t know, you don’t know the value of something until you know – we would share with our new neighbors. ‘Oh, you’re moving into this house? Well, you know who used to own that house?’ And we would tell them histories and tell them about the families. You will find this is still a very warm neighborhood. And we know each other and we invite each other over for breakfast and for lunch, and we attend meetings and we discuss changes in the neighborhood. And we’ve kept that spirit, that neighborly spirit. So I’m very proud of what we’re doing here in this neighborhood.”Remembering Rogers Washington Holy Cross
“I’d like for it to be known that a segregated black community was a lot more than how TV depicts it, or even how you’re reading. That this was a community that was supportive and it was a community of people who built special and lived special and really served to build the greater East Austin community educators, business people.”Full Transcript
Connie Kirk Remembers Historic Black East Austin Neighborhood
Interview Highlights
The racial diversity of East Austin
“This East Austin was wholesome. It was just well integrated with beautiful people.
The blacks and Hispanics had a loving environment. We were united. We had no racial problems between us. None whatsoever. Mothers would share recipes and beautiful foods, and we’d have little decorative parties together in the streets and stuff. And they were really united. The mothers united the neighborhood.”
Civil rights and Rogers Washington Holy Cross
“I was 13 and we had started going to white schools. When we moved over there [Rogers Washington Holy Cross], we moved in the summer, we had not started school yet, and there was a skating rink that opened up in our neighborhood down the street on Airport and Manor Road.
I don’t remember the name of it, but they had a big sign up there. We went to go skating and it said “no blacks allowed.” And the reason why I’m bringing up this issue, this is what catapulted our civil rights movement. This just started dominoing and one civil rights march led to another civil rights led.
We had the most peaceful marches. We never had any problems with the police, never. My mother led the marches, she and NAACP President Volma Overton and my dad. And our neighborhood, Rogers Washington Holy Cross, we were the first civil rights leaders in that whole area. That’s how mother and all of the mothers in that area, we all got together. We had unity. It was unbelievable.”
The close kinship of Rogers Washington Holy Cross
“We were family. Everybody knew how old each other was. Everybody knew whose birthday it was.
Everyone knew when somebody was sick, if somebody got sick, they all united. In the old days, when somebody passed away in your family, everybody, the women would cook and they would take food over to the bereaved family. They didn’t have to cook for at least a week or two, especially during the duration of the funeral preparation they would take food.
I’m talking about unity. I’m talking about unity in a family way. Create a family environment.”
The historical people that lived in Rogers Washington
“We had Mr. Poole in our neighborhood. Our Poole – school teacher. Also a cowboy. He had the prettiest, most beautiful white horse called Playboy. Mr. Poole rode Playboy down Congress Avenue and led in the 4th of July parade. First black cowboy.
Tuskegee airman, Mr. Norman came from our neighborhood. Mr. Poole came from our neighborhood. John King was one of the first black three star generals in the United States, Stewart King’s father.
We have a lot of historical people. Stella Banks that lived on the corner. She used to sing jazz in Hollywood and wrote music for Duke Ellington and Count Basie, best friends with Billie Holiday and Sarah Vaughan.”
What Rogers Washington can teach current generations
“[Rogers Washington Holy Cross] is like a giant door that stays open. It stays open for young people like yourself, who need to go in there and reap the benefits of the knowledge and the beautiful work that the leaders, the old leaders, left behind.
It’s still there. Anything you want to learn is still there. They made sure that they left behind all of the trails of their work in the library, through the memories of people like Jan and her sweet family and her friends, and Brenda Malik and her family.
And they’re still people there. Ida Dawne Thompson, who lived next door to our family, her father – Oscar Thompson – was the first black biology instructor at University of Texas. But there’s so many of us, children, some of the grandchildren, and even it doesn’t necessarily have to be carried on by the grandchildren. It just needs to be there in memory of the old leaders and what they stood for.
Take that and run. You need to live on their courage. You need to understand that they weren’t afraid when they marched, when they took on a great battle of racial discrimination and segregation, they weren’t afraid. They moved in faith.”
Full Transcript
Ira Poole on home, education, and his famous front yard
Ira Poole is a retired educator who lived and currently resides in Rogers Washington Holy Cross, a historic East Austin neighborhood that was built by and for Black professionals after World War Two. In this interview, Poole recalls his journey of finding and paying for a home in the neighborhood, his life challenges, his views on education, and more.
Interview Highlights
Finding a home in Rogers Washington
“And I came this way from 1010 East 10 street, and I found a vacant piece of property that’s where I would like to live on the spot. I would like to build a home. So then I had to go and find who this property belonged to. I found that it belonged to a Dr. Washington whose office was on 12th street. I asked him would he sell a part of this or would he sell all of it.”Ira Poole’s work ethic
“I was running from one house to another. I had three jobs, I was working for Western Auto and I was doing work for a restaurant, but I wasn’t bartending at that time. But I later started bartending. I was doing yards when I could. I didn’t get to bed each night until 1:00 and 2:00. Be up the next morning to be in the classroom.”Ira Poole’s innovative teaching methods
“And then I would put it up on the bulletin board with this colorful construction paper and the border. And this was very attractive. It was all in different colors. Meanwhile, whole Austin public schools were in the process of repainting all the schools on the inside. The paint, and those colors, it was discovered the colorful colors was inspiring and sharpening the brains of kids. Parents were wanting their kids to be in my room. Administration was having trouble with parents wanting to place their child in my room, which was fine with me. I had as many as 45 kids in my room.”The story behind his famous “Statue of Liberty” yard
“I was going to use my students and we would take the map of the United States, pour it in concrete, and then set it out. Go look for a Statue of Liberty, in some way involve the schools to buy the Statue of Liberty. And we would put all this in a strategic place on the school campus. They wouldn’t let me do it. So I said, ‘if you don’t let me do it, I’ll do it myself.’ My house was where it is now. So what I did then, I cashed an insurance policy, got that money, and I used that money to buy a Statue of Liberty.”The meaning of education
“When we finished studying that unit on seeds, then we would go to the country, to my place, a pliable plot of land out there, and they planted seeds. So they studied the seed, but here they planted it and they saw how important the seed was to them. The education that I had changed was that a student’s reason for going to school was not to get an education, it is to prepare himself to live.”Full Transcript
Lindsey Derrington on Preserving Black East Austin Neighborhood
Lindsey Derrington is the Executive Director of Preservation Austin, the only citywide nonprofit dedicated to celebrating and protecting historic Austin places. In this interview, Derrington describes how she helped the residents of East Austin’s Rogers Washington Holy Cross, a neighborhood built by and for black professionals after World War Two, obtain a historic district designation from the city.
Interview Highlights
How Lindsey Derrington got into preservation work
“I started Preservation Austin almost ten years ago. I started as a programs coordinator. I’ve been working in historic preservation since 2007, when I first graduated from undergrad. I became interested in this field because I’m from Saint Louis, which is a very different city than Austin.
When I grew up in the suburbs, got my driver’s license, was driving around, the city that so many people had turned their backs on – it’s like the textbook example of white flight and urban renewal and segregation.
And it’s got this beautiful history and culture and all these buildings that need so much investment and care. And so I became inspired to do this work in high school before I even knew what the work was like, I knew I wanted to do something with historic places.”
How local historic districts work
“Local historic districts are really basic tools that have been used in cities and smaller communities since the ‘70s, really to protect historic places by taking groups of buildings that are significant and actually zoning them historic to protect them from demolition.
Fundamentally, it’s a planning tool. You get to say, hey, here’s a group of significant homes, and how do we want development to look within this area?”
Why Rogers Washington pursued a historic district designation
“The neighborhood pursued their historic district because they saw all the changes happening around them. If you drive a few blocks in either direction from this really small community, Rogers Washington Holy Cross is not a big one – so much history, but relatively few homes compared to some historic districts, which might be like hundreds of homes – it’s changed.
Blackland neighborhoods changed. Chestnut has changed. These are really desirable homes for people with a lot of money and sometimes you drive down blocks and half of the houses or more were built only a few years ago, and they’re much bigger and much more expensive than the housing that was there before. And of course, you’ve lost all that history with those demolitions.
So I think the critical thing for neighbors in this community was to figure out how to implement a local historic district. This achieves two things for us: we get to celebrate our history and we get to protect it, because we’re not going to see that kind of development in Rogers Washington Holy Cross because literally we’re able to say, here’s the map. Here are the houses that are contributing.”
The uniqueness of Roger Washington Holy Cross
“After World War Two, it wasn’t easy to do anything, whereas the federal government made it really easy for white families to do a lot of things, but not so much for black families. So setting this neighborhood in that context, but then just running with all the incredible stories and even day to day experiences that are incorporated into that history that make Rogers Washington Holy Cross so special.
I’m not sure with any of the other home tours we’ve done that we’ve had so many original families. That’s rare, I think, having so many children of the original people who built the houses – or Mr. Poole, he built that house and he’s still here. I think that’s unique, no matter what the city is, Austin or anywhere else in the country.”
A vision for the future of Austin
“So Preservation Austin, it’s important to us that we are building a more inclusive preservation movement for this century. It seems weird to keep emphasizing we’re in the 21st century because we’re like 24 years into it. But preservation as a movement needs to grow.
Everyone needs to see themselves reflected in this work, which they haven’t always. The work that we do is, like anything else in the US, has been very focused on white wealth, and many men who have made money, and really looking at like just only a very narrow section of our history and using historic places to kind of to interpret that history.
And so for us, we’re citywide. We take very seriously that commitment to representing the whole city and then also expanding what people think of preservation.”
Full Transcript
Patricia Calhoun on gentrification, community, and black history
Patricia Calhoun is a resident of Rogers Washington Holy Cross, a historic East Austin neighborhood built for and by black professionals after World War Two. In this interview, she discusses the close bonds of the neighborhood, gentrification, ongoing historical research, and more.
Interview Highlights
Close ties in the community
“The neighborhood was really a kind of a close, cohesive neighborhood because I guess the commonalities was education, and either Huston Tillotson University – College at that time – or the lower level schools, the high school, junior high, elementary. Much as we have now, it was very active. One of the interesting things about the neighborhood, they all knew each other very well. And I would say more than acquaintances, they were all essentially friends. There were some that were closer friends than others, but most had known each other for many, many years.”Gentrification on the Eastside
“[Rogers Washington] represented, I think, of what East Austin used to be in terms of just a complete, cohesive community. Yes there were differences, economic differences as well, but because we were segregated and we could not go across the freeways, we call it, we built our own and the communities thrived, our businesses thrived. And so we could see that Austin was losing that. And particularly on the Eastside. One of the things I remember, several of us, in conversation, it was the feeling that in a very short time it was like you never existed. So the whole face of the community – and it is different. But unless we took steps to preserve our stories and our histories, then in a few years, the Eastside of Austin and the African-American families who inhabited this part of town would be totally gone.”Ongoing historical research on an African American credit union
“One of the things that we’re still researching is the existence of an African American credit union. That was very much instrumental in providing funding for the homeowners. And, so that’s one of the things that’s ongoing. It was headquartered in the Chase building onNavasota that’s now owned by University of Texas. But that’s where the State Teachers Association met. And we think the credit union might have been a part of that. I have found some documentation where the idea of a credit union and, I think a national credit union, entity was presented to the teachers association. We haven’t gotten much farther than that, but we are researching that.”Remembering Rogers Washington Holy Cross
“I’d like it to be remembered as a community of love. We didn’t talk about our churches and what an important part of our lives our churches play. And the black church, I think, has been the strength of many of our communities, most of our communities. As you look at the Bible, and as a believer, it’s love that makes the difference in the world. And I see this community and saw this community as a community of love. While we had our differences, we were all the same, many of us had slight differences in our backgrounds, there was just a commonality. And we loved one another. And through that love you do things for one another. You care about one another. You’re interested in how this person is doing.”Full Transcript
Stuart King on community, segregation, and Austin’s black history
Stuart King is a resident of Rogers Washington Holy Cross, a historic East Austin neighborhood built for and by black professionals after World War Two. In this interview, he describes the sense of community in the neighborhood, what life was like during segregation, and the changes Rogers Washington has faced in recent years.
Interview Highlights
Close community ties
“Our parents didn’t have the whole neighborhood over at the house. Like kids from other neighborhoods – they’d come over and play football against us. Baseball, whatever you have it. But as far as it was, it was a close knit neighborhood, Washington Rogers, where everybody knew everybody.
Of course, the kids were all play with each other. We all grew up together. Some of the kids that we grew up with are no longer here, a lot of them moved away. But some of my closest friends that we grew up with, it’s only one, that stayed next door to Ms. Mims – Brenda Mallik.”
Childhood mischief
“Of course, as kids, we play softball, baseball, and break somebody’s window. That was a thing. We raided people’s pear trees and plum trees, jumping over somebody’s fence. Ms. Tolliver, she had a pear tree, and we’d go and jump over and go grab some pears and run and get out.”
Life during segregation
“My dad just talked about going to the Ritz Theater, which is on Sixth Street, then the state and the Paramount theaters. We had to sit upstairs in the balcony. We couldn’t sit down where the regular people sat, I say regular – well where the white people sat. We’d have to sit in the balcony.
I remember certain restaurants we couldn’t go to, like the Piccadilly. I think it was on the corner of Congress and ninth.
And during segregation we picketed this ice rink that was on Airport, where we couldn’t go. So I have a picture in my phone of all of the Kirk’s, my brother, my sister, where we’re holding signs, picketing the skating rink, which is on airport – now it’s some kind of warehouse.”
East Austin is different today
“So that’s the changes that I seen that’s happened in East Austin is the education that we got was top notch because teachers could use the board of education on you when you did something wrong in class. It was just totally different times than it is now. And those are the changes that are devastating to a community and to a city because they’re not getting a quality education like we got, growing up.”
“I want Rogers Washington Holy Cross to be remembered as a neighborhood that cared about the neighbors, a neighborhood that would speak to their neighbors. Because now we have neighbors that don’t speak. I make them speak.”
Full Transcript
Yvette Crawford on Austin’s black history and gentrification
About This Oral History
Yvette Crawford grew up in Rogers Washington Holy Cross, a historic neighborhood in East Austin that was built by and for black professionals after World War Two. In this interview, Crawford discusses her memories of the neighborhood, her father and his work as the assistant attorney general for Texas, gentrification, and the significance of Rogers Washington.
Interview Highlights
Childhood and community ties
“I grew up on 2103 Stafford which is on the corner of Rogers and Stafford and across the street from Campbell Elementary School. I knew almost everyone knew almost everyone in the community because that’s just the way it was at the time.
It was close knit. We knew everyone. There were functions. We’d always seen them at different functions in the city on this side of town, so it was a nice community.”
Leaders who paved the way
“There were a lot of African-Americans who lived in this community that were accomplished. They had made stepping stones in our community. Which means they opened doors for us, for my generation and then for your generation and my children’s generation, to the point that sky’s the limit.”
Crawford’s father and Civil Rights
“And the president of the college basically wrote her back and told her, based on the bylaws of the school, we cannot admit any Negroes to this college. So Mrs. Smith’s father hired my father to take the case, and my father in Texas State University. And I believe in 1963, 1964, the judge decided that she had every right to be admitted to Texas State University.
So basically that opened doors for people of color to enter their school. And I believe there were three other students who went ahead and signed up to enroll at Texas State that afternoon. So, I mean, I’m proud of my father, for his accomplishments, for what he did because that’s how I was able to go to college.”
Gentrification
“Driving here today to do this interview, it was very hard for me to come back to this neighborhood because it’s just totally not the same. Entire East Austin has changed tremendously, and it hurts. It really hurts.
More white businesses popping up. More anglos living here who are truly now the residents of East Austin, there’s hardly any African Americans living in East Austin anymore because of affordability.”
Remembrance
“I’d like for [Rogers Washington] to be remembered as a vibrant community which had families who were well educated, who had accomplishments and goals, which helped to open a lot of doors for people of color. Regardless if you’re African-American or Hispanic, Latino. The neighborhood that was well kept, well established and was part of the community of East Austin.
Even though it has changed through the years, it needs to be remembered as a very remarkable and outstanding community in Austin, and let it not be forgotten that it did once exist.”